Jail Appeal

[DKC]

I would like to appeal my jail for the use of autoclickers, because I have not used an autoclicker to afk a farm or even for recreational purposes since the announcement. That being said I did use autoclickers before the announcement, but I never used inhumanly fast ones for any given benefit to me. I only used extremely fast ones to place blocks at spawn (Within the self deleting area). I never used an autoclicker after your announcement of them being bannable. I do think I was wrongly jailed because I was not made aware of what I was doing and when I asked at this time the rules were very vague, they did not appear to be jailable if used in not beneficial ways. I placed blocks under my feet in spawn to create ghost blocks then I quickly deleted them. I did this about 4 times then stopped. I do wish to appeal my jail or maybe to lift the harshness of my sentence because what I did was not as serious as the diamond clay patch exploit which resulted in parties being unjailed in 1 month. That being said I was not clearly aware of this rule against autoclickers for at the time there was no real discussion about them. My understanding was that using insanely fast ones in order to afk farms, pvp, or give any other advanatage to a given player was against the rules. I did not think, at the time, that what I was doing was breaking the rules because it did not give me an advantage and I did not get a warning for this. I was pretty shocked to find out that I was banned for this because once I was made known of the rules I quickly stopped using autoclickers in general on Sim until this whole argument between the rules was fixed. I was not made aware of what I was doing being against the rules until I was banned, considering I never recieved a warning for my actions. I did not understand that using an autoclicker outside of benefit giving activities was jailable, and I do apologize.

[MoWobbler]

It is important to ask if mods/external programs are allowed if you are unsure about their legality. My answer has always been that auto clickers are allowed if they aren't used extremely fast. A player needs to be able to replicate it. The rules did not change recently that I'm aware of, they were just made more clear. We did reduce sentences for players jailed from the clay patch exploit because people thought it was part of the game and a feature, not an exploit. This was a rare one-time thing though, and it is unlikely to happen again.

[DKC]

I can see what you are saying, but what I did could be replicated without the use of an autoclicker. I only used the autoclicker after I realized I could create ghost blocks at spawn when clicking really fast, but to clarify I was not aware of these rules and in the future when I was made aware I stopped using autoclickers.

[SkullerG]

Not to be “that guy” but rules are rules. They were just updated and made public that they were not allowed. If they are not allowed, it doesn’t matter for what purpose you are using it for. The fact is you used it and you deal with the consequences regardless if it was for personal gain or pure bordem.

As to why people were unbanned after a month for the Diamond exploit: the people who were banned for the Diamond exploit and unbanned a month later were banned after it was announced illegal. Anyone who used it after the announcement of it becoming illegal is still jailed. Everyone who received a 1 month used it prior to the announcement.

[KoriJenkins]

As to why people were unbanned after a month for the Diamond exploit: the people who were banned for the Diamond exploit and unbanned a month later were banned after it was announced illegal. Anyone who used it after the announcement of it becoming illegal is still jailed. Everyone who received a 1 month used it prior to the announcement.

It was announced illegal the same day it was discovered, when Yukarion logged on and did some quick research on it. The forum announcement of it being illegal (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2790) was made 2 months before both were jailed for using it.

Not saying this situation is completely similar, but the "people who got banned for doing it did it before any announcements" stuff is a complete fiction. They still could certainly have not known, but it was not impossible to know. For DKC it's entirely possible he didn't know.

I see this situation having 3 options, all of which had good and bad reasons to choose them.

Lets say you temp ban or just warn him to not do it. Does that mean Spawn is now an area where you can use cheats and hacks as long as they give no advantage? Can boats be flown around the protected area now? Can players just blatantly flyhack?

At the same time you can definitely argue he gained nothing from it and just did it while afk because it looked cool. On top of that, what he was doing was very similar to what many did during the Second Siege to scale the wall, none of them were punished. Is that really worthy of a 1 year ban? Is that equivalent to a hacker who maliciously x-rays bases? It's certainly not equivalent.

I suspect this is far more complicated than "rules are rules" in the eyes of the admins, which is why he wasn't just outright banned over it and why a discussion was likely held regarding what to do, where the same arguments were probably even made.

I guess my opinion on this changed a little bit overnight. I originally said I had no real feelings towards it, because all of the options (warning, temp jail, full jail) have good reasons for them that I can agree with. But I think I would've preferred one of the other two to a full jail. I think a server regular should be afforded at least a single warning if what they're doing is completely harmless, but I also understand that DKC's actions on Sim probably made his case far less sympathetic.

[Burger]

in this case, what the admins have failed to consider is that rules......were made to be broken >:)

[DKC]

As to why people were unbanned after a month for the Diamond exploit: the people who were banned for the Diamond exploit and unbanned a month later were banned after it was announced illegal. Anyone who used it after the announcement of it becoming illegal is still jailed. Everyone who received a 1 month used it prior to the announcement.

It was announced illegal the same day it was discovered, when Yukarion logged on and did some quick research on it. The forum announcement of it being illegal (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2790) was made 2 months before both were jailed for using it.

Not saying this situation is completely similar, but the "people who got banned for doing it did it before any announcements" stuff is a complete fiction. They still could certainly have not known, but it was not impossible to know. For DKC it's entirely possible he didn't know.

I see this situation having 3 options, all of which had good and bad reasons to choose them.

Lets say you temp ban or just warn him to not do it. Does that mean Spawn is now an area where you can use cheats and hacks as long as they give no advantage? Can boats be flown around the protected area now? Can players just blatantly flyhack?

At the same time you can definitely argue he gained nothing from it and just did it while afk because it looked cool. On top of that, what he was doing was very similar to what many did during the Second Siege to scale the wall, none of them were punished. Is that really worthy of a 1 year ban? Is that equivalent to a hacker who maliciously x-rays bases? It's certainly not equivalent.

I suspect this is far more complicated than "rules are rules" in the eyes of the admins, which is why he wasn't just outright banned over it and why a discussion was likely held regarding what to do, where the same arguments were probably even made.

I guess my opinion on this changed a little bit overnight. I originally said I had no real feelings towards it, because all of the options (warning, temp jail, full jail) have good reasons for them that I can agree with. But I think I would've preferred one of the other two to a full jail. I think a server regular should be afforded at least a single warning if what they're doing is completely harmless, but I also understand that DKC's actions on Sim probably made his case far less sympathetic.

[DKC]

At the same time you can definitely argue he gained nothing from it and just did it while afk because it looked cool. On top of that, what he was doing was very similar to what many did during the Second Siege to scale the wall, none of them were punished. Is that really worthy of a 1 year ban? Is that equivalent to a hacker who maliciously x-rays bases? It's certainly not equivalent.

My full sentiments are in Kori's statement. I know I've done terrible things on Sim, but the fact is using that to fuel your opinion on me being unbanned is completely ridiculous. When I hated the Holy States I still stood strong beside IDeny and my sentiments to that has not changed. Hated or not if what happened in the 2nd seige is true then I do not understand why bans were not handed out then as well if the rules had not changed on the subject. I was not aware of the rules and will take the consequences for my actions regardless, but I genuinely believe that a full 1 year jail for something I didn't know about and did not profit from shouldn't be dished out. A warning or a temp ban is what I think should be dished out.

[Nebuelaz]

My personal opinion is that there was nothing gained from this and I don't believe it was done with malicious intent. I feel that a severe warning would do, as it had no beneficial gain. Of course it is worth noting that he did in fact break the rules and it is fair that he should be punished. However I find it unnecessary and over the top to jail him for a year.

I do understand that he broke the rules and if you really believe that some punishment is needed to stop people pulling similar stunts just because they will only "be warned" as a punishment, then at least give him a less severe sentence. Although I feel you can tell if people are being disingenuous about things and I believe he was just bored and messing around spawn. I don't think he was "testing" anyone and I feel jailing him is a tad overkill. Just one persons thoughts.

[DKC]

My personal opinion is that there was nothing gained from this and I don't believe it was done with malicious intent. I feel that a severe warning would do, as it had no beneficial gain. Of course it is worth noting that he did in fact break the rules and it is fair that he should be punished. However I find it unnecessary and over the top to jail him for a year.

I do understand that he broke the rules and if you really believe that some punishment is needed to stop people pulling similar stunts just because they will only "be warned" as a punishment, then at least give him a less severe sentence. Although I feel you can tell if people are being disingenuous about things and I believe he was just bored and messing around spawn. I don't think he was "testing" anyone and I feel jailing him is a tad overkill. Just one persons thoughts.

This what I would like to see done as well. I'm not saying I get off with a slap of the wrist but a whole years is completely unreasonable. I think our best way going forward is to make it apparent that we do not agree with this much force for an infringement so minor, espicially when people who have done exploits much worse got off with a month jail.