Witches...LoneSoldier55 wrote:>RedstoneKennyKatsu wrote:Since redstone is renewable this makes obsidian renewable without traveling through all the portals and stuffRevStoningpot wrote:since lava is more common than redstone this seems to be a loss glitch not a gain.
>Renewable
>mfw
This is for the Staff
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KennyKatsu
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Re: This is for the Staff
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Mr_Hole_Digger
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Re: This is for the Staff
Redstone to obsidian, It's called a glitch isn't it? Server rules: No glitching. So uh how is it in a 'might-be-cheating' catagory?Yukar9 wrote:No, it shouldn't be considered either cheating or not cheating. Putting everything on a side of a clearly defined line would take an incredibly huge set of rules. It is in the might-be-cheating category, might-be-cheating should by the conscientious player be taken as cheating, the leeway given is mostly for the ignorant. Might-be-cheating should be taken as forbidden.
I use a fortune pick on redstone and I've obtained mountians of this stuff, others could do the same and convert it to obsidian. It's practical in a way.
You saying we can glitch?
Re: This is for the Staff
I'm saying you might not get banned for it.
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LoneSoldier55
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Re: This is for the Staff
Witches are hard as fuck to find and not worth anything anyways. I wouldn't count it as renewable.
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MisterStrawman
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Re: This is for the Staff
Here comes my undoubtedly tl;dr opinion on the matter.
Starting with the redstone to obsidian "glitch", I'm hardly convinced it's a glitch to begin with. I know the wiki says it is, but on what grounds? I know there are plugins out there with a "fix" for this, the same ones that have a "fix" for cobblestone generators. To me, both of these seem to be manifestations of the same thing, as a finite source of lava and water can create infinite stone/cobblestone. With obsidian, however, it is not infinite, and requires a supply of another resource in order to function. There are clear uses for it, you can create a machine designed to harvest obsidian in this manner, and it is safer and more consistent than by other means. You can also place a haste beacon near this machine and whatnot, keep it lit and clear from mobs, and so on. I don't think it's overpowered or unfair, as the advantage you gain from it is small. I find it to be less of an advantage than, say, top of the nether travel ( http://simplicitypvp.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=883 ), which to my understanding has been declared to be allowed, even if there is no rule for it. Notch/Mojang know about this "glitch", yet do not fix it, even in the "Redstone Update". One can't really ask them if it's intended and expect to get an answer, but I think the onus of calling it a glitch would fall on them, so I don't think we should consider it to be one.
As for gray areas in general, I understand why we don't want to have a long list of rules, but to say "No hacking" is nowhere near all-inclusive. And saying "No cheating" is almost redundant, any server's rules could probably be boiled down to that, since cheating is really just breaking rules. I find gray areas to be unfair, especially if you end up in a case where one person gets banned for something, and another gets away with doing the exact same thing. And spamming isn't covered under either of those rules, really. Using common sense is a good principle, but even that is vaguely defined.
As minecraft is a game full of glitches, it's difficult to sit and sort out which ones are allowable, and which aren't. I think it would be worthwhile to have a server-wide discussion on how we're defining glitches, and come up with a simple definition that can be applied to all, or at least most cases. Maybe just something like ones that allow you to fly (if any exist), x ray, duplicate items, or maybe just allows you to do things you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.
I was gonna go on, but this is long enough, I'll let someone else get a word in.
Starting with the redstone to obsidian "glitch", I'm hardly convinced it's a glitch to begin with. I know the wiki says it is, but on what grounds? I know there are plugins out there with a "fix" for this, the same ones that have a "fix" for cobblestone generators. To me, both of these seem to be manifestations of the same thing, as a finite source of lava and water can create infinite stone/cobblestone. With obsidian, however, it is not infinite, and requires a supply of another resource in order to function. There are clear uses for it, you can create a machine designed to harvest obsidian in this manner, and it is safer and more consistent than by other means. You can also place a haste beacon near this machine and whatnot, keep it lit and clear from mobs, and so on. I don't think it's overpowered or unfair, as the advantage you gain from it is small. I find it to be less of an advantage than, say, top of the nether travel ( http://simplicitypvp.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=883 ), which to my understanding has been declared to be allowed, even if there is no rule for it. Notch/Mojang know about this "glitch", yet do not fix it, even in the "Redstone Update". One can't really ask them if it's intended and expect to get an answer, but I think the onus of calling it a glitch would fall on them, so I don't think we should consider it to be one.
As for gray areas in general, I understand why we don't want to have a long list of rules, but to say "No hacking" is nowhere near all-inclusive. And saying "No cheating" is almost redundant, any server's rules could probably be boiled down to that, since cheating is really just breaking rules. I find gray areas to be unfair, especially if you end up in a case where one person gets banned for something, and another gets away with doing the exact same thing. And spamming isn't covered under either of those rules, really. Using common sense is a good principle, but even that is vaguely defined.
As minecraft is a game full of glitches, it's difficult to sit and sort out which ones are allowable, and which aren't. I think it would be worthwhile to have a server-wide discussion on how we're defining glitches, and come up with a simple definition that can be applied to all, or at least most cases. Maybe just something like ones that allow you to fly (if any exist), x ray, duplicate items, or maybe just allows you to do things you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.
I was gonna go on, but this is long enough, I'll let someone else get a word in.
Re: This is for the Staff
I think the rules are clear enough about what is allowed and what is forbidden.
The general punishmenat is banning for everything.
If you are cought by someone who doesn't ban you for less evil crimes, feel happy.
Don't see a problem here as long no one says "Ban!"
@MisterStrawman: If you want to make a complete list of everything not allowed, you will miss something. You will still have gabs in the rules. You will never be able to make the perfect rules. We assume people here have a little bit intellect that rules forbidding unfair things apply to everything tha is unfair, and just avoid it. And you will never see someone allowinf thing like fly or x-ray...
The general punishmenat is banning for everything.
If you are cought by someone who doesn't ban you for less evil crimes, feel happy.
Don't see a problem here as long no one says "Ban!"
@MisterStrawman: If you want to make a complete list of everything not allowed, you will miss something. You will still have gabs in the rules. You will never be able to make the perfect rules. We assume people here have a little bit intellect that rules forbidding unfair things apply to everything tha is unfair, and just avoid it. And you will never see someone allowinf thing like fly or x-ray...
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KennyKatsu
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Re: This is for the Staff
LoneSoldier55 wrote:Witches are hard as fuck to find
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skaterhan1
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Re: This is for the Staff
Straw for president.
Anyway, before today, I didnt even realize the redstone to obsidian was a glitch. If its part of the game, we should be able to use it (with the exception af xray).
And on a completely different note, the duplication glitch, if one of these is discovered, youre not going to be able to catch people to easily before theyve accumulated hundreds of diamond. The legitimacey of the whole server would be hindered.
Anyway, before today, I didnt even realize the redstone to obsidian was a glitch. If its part of the game, we should be able to use it (with the exception af xray).
And on a completely different note, the duplication glitch, if one of these is discovered, youre not going to be able to catch people to easily before theyve accumulated hundreds of diamond. The legitimacey of the whole server would be hindered.
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KennyKatsu
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Re: This is for the Staff
Anyways redstone renewable or not I think it should be allowed to turn the redstone into obsidian, whether it is a glitch or not. I mean if you really would want to disable it you could just simply get a plugin, but it would be simply stupid to ban someone because of it.
Re: This is for the Staff
I never considered the comparison to cobble generators. I've always considered cobble generators fair, but this 'function' (for lack of a better neutral word) unfair. I can't exactly describe the difference however, this seems like one of the things you just know when you see it.
Well, regardless, I personally do not particularly like the idea of creating any complex lists of rules. I think it is much better to have admins decide on a case-by-case basis, as there would simply be too many unique cases for us to preemptively decide on. This is how I would interpret the current rules: Anything that gives you an unfair advantage over other players, or is a great bother to other players, is forbidden. If uncertain, assume it is forbidden.
This rule, applied to a cobble generator, would in the same way generally allow for cobble generators. But if someone were to find a way to egregiously abuse cobble generators for a massive advantage to themselves, it would still allow admins to ban this player.
You're absolutely right that it's vaguely defined, the same goes for the US constitution, and certainly many more laws, is there anything inherently wrong in that?
Well, regardless, I personally do not particularly like the idea of creating any complex lists of rules. I think it is much better to have admins decide on a case-by-case basis, as there would simply be too many unique cases for us to preemptively decide on. This is how I would interpret the current rules: Anything that gives you an unfair advantage over other players, or is a great bother to other players, is forbidden. If uncertain, assume it is forbidden.
This rule, applied to a cobble generator, would in the same way generally allow for cobble generators. But if someone were to find a way to egregiously abuse cobble generators for a massive advantage to themselves, it would still allow admins to ban this player.
You're absolutely right that it's vaguely defined, the same goes for the US constitution, and certainly many more laws, is there anything inherently wrong in that?