Fixing pvp: The case against enchantments

[FoSchnizzleTheSecond]

I think that this is a great idea. I was just talking last night about how PvP isn't what it used to be, and I feel like this would even things out. We'd also have to ban enderchest access from the /world, mind you, or people could sneak things in.

[mitte90]

well enchantments have broken pvp but still i like going into pvp with gear i have spent time on.. it give me a reason to play. and i have the last couple of days had a kill streak battling 5 full enchanted players close to get killed many times and im fighting more intense becouse the time i have been building the gear.

im against it.. this is an vanilla server if we change one thing we dont like why not change everything we dont like?

[LoneSoldier55]

Im mixed about this idea. It would be nice, yes to have the old system of PvP entertainment. No more whailing on each other and getting flung back and set on fire when someone so much as brushes you with a sword. However some enchantments do sort of have their place to give you that slight edge. Protection IV however is 2 stronk and really, really needs to be dumbed down. Protection IV diamond armor provides a 96% damage resistance to mob and player based attacks. For some reason, this includes the poisoned debuff, causing poison potions to be entirely useless against one in full armor because it attacks HP directly instead of taking a use of armor every time it damages. The only Armor-Penetrating item is now nill because of this.

Standard PvP has some flaws in itself. With the way damage is calcuated by Str II potions, damage is increased by 260% instead of 6 points (3 hearts) pre-update. This might mean diamond armor can be nill if combined with a diamond sword. Diamond swords do about 8 points of damage (4 hearts) on a normal strike. 8*2.60= 20.8. Minecraft will likely round to the nearest whole number, meaning the damage of a single, uncritical diamond sword strike will equal 21 points of damage, or 10.5 hearts, enough to instakill anybody you touch who is unarmored. What's to say diamond armor will stop most of that?

According to the Minecraft wiki, ever one-half armor icon is 4% damage reduction. Therefore, a full suit of 10 armor icons is 80% damage reduction.The aforementioned diamond-sword attack would yield 21*0.2 damage, equaling 4.2, which would be rounded to 4 points of damage. It would take five hits under the effects of a strength II potion to bust someone in full diamond.

That's not to say some other sword effects weren't overpowered. Using a Diamond Sword with Sharpness V, you could get insane amounts of damage. According to the wiki, each level of sharpness adds 1.25 points of damage to each strike. (Points, not hearts) With sharpness V, you get 6.25 extra points of damage, equaling about 3 hearts. This brings the previous diamond swords regular damage to 14.25 points, or about 7 hearts. Combine this with the 2.6 bonus multiplication of damage from potions. This is 14.25*2.6 which equals 37 points of damage, or about 18.5 hearts of damage in a single strike.

This is not the extent of the damage you can cause. Diamond swords do 14 points of damage default on a critical strike. Combine this with Sharpness V. 14+6.25=20.25 damage on a critical strike. Multiply by the bonus from strength potions. 20.25*2.6=52.65 damage, or 26 hearts of damage. For refrence, you could kill an ender dragon in five hits under these conditions. With 96% damage reduction from protection 4, this is down to 2 points of damage, a measly single heart of damage. Even causing massive amounts of damage such as this, it would still take you ten hits to kill someone in protection IV diamond armor.

Statistics aside, yes, this would be a decent idea to liven up PvP and undo the shit that Jeb has forced upon the game.

[DakkaDok]

I like the idea and i think we should try it. If it doesn't work, we can still just change it back.
Of course, we would also have to ban enchantment tables and enderchests from /world.

Oh, and would enchanted picks, shovels etc. be banned as well, or just armor and swords?

[Xestia]

el_andres I think you're mixing up restricting items and restricting play. Just because we forbid items, it doesn't mean we get less freedom in playing, in fact I would say this greatly increases the amount of freedom people would have in creating tactics. If an instakill-no-matter-what weapon was added to this game (exaggerated I know, but still) banning it from the pvp world would greatly reduce freedom in the pvp world, as everybody would be forced to use that one weapon.

I don't see vanilla as it being an argument, we already added an unvanilla pvp world to try and fix pvp, I don't see any problem changing it more to keep up with making pvp good.

mitte you're right, that is a negative side to it. It does feel good to use weapons you've put a lot of time into. I don't think that one feeling is worth it though. And I would suggest named weapons are still allowed.

To Dakka, I personally would prefer banning all enchanted items, just to take it all back to pre-enchantments. That being said, if people decide they really want enchanted tools, then it's not something I care that much about.

And yes, I'd say we make it impossible to place enchantment tables and ender chests in the pvp world.

[mitte90]

and it forces me to have atleast 2 sets of armor.. one unenchanted and one with.. if u cant efford that u will be stuck in real world or have to use unenchanted

[DakkaDok]

What mitte said about armor would apply to tools as well. I usually have one set of enchanted tools i use at a time.
On the other hand, an axe with sharpness is still a pretty good weapon...

[deflowvesper]

you get attacked by an invis person, but barely survive, and manage to ender pearl out. A person in diamond comes running towards you, and kills you in an instant.

It does tend to happen alot. I have lost a few good gears in the past due to this kind of situation and it does suck to lose them that way. So having this implemented, i think this is the best solution for an even pvp, this will give semi-new players(odinfire, crasyandloudjoe, etc.) a chance to fight back agaisnt veterans and regulars. But having said that, pvp will be less intense as mitte said, as players wont be worried to much about loosing gears that are easy to obtain. I say let the players decide what gears they want to carry in the pvp world, whether if its an old junk or their best gears and take a gamble. PvP is better that way. Overall im against this.

[Melvin3000]

A second "arena" world with this idea might be good, but I sort of agree with Deflow too, risking your best gear can make it fun also.

[FoSchnizzleTheSecond]

With a second world, it will just split traffic between the two. There are rarely more than 6 people in the /world as it stands (at high points on the server), and if there were two worlds, there would be even less.