Enchantments themselves aren't the problem. Here's what is

[morl0ck]

first off i don't see why this 'nerf grinders' is posed as a fix for the pvp world. /world should just go back to the old way it was to be made better. But as for grinders, people making piles of hundreds of mobs has been a problem for a long time and no fix has been implimented yet. For me and my grinding a cap wouldn't even effect me since usually 5-10 minutes (when spawn rate isn't slowed to a crawl from others' hoards) is all i need to get 30 levels so i don't see the need to watch tv or take a nap for hours. I think it's a rather dumb reasoning to say all that stuff about people not playing or being solo and shit. Many people build a team when they build a grinder, so i don't see how grinders keep people from playing together and having fun. People stay in a single area cuz it's where their team and base and everything they've worked towards happens to be. As for playing 'as intended'? there is nothing un-vanilla about grinders. Killing the spawn rate making the game, at times, feel like the server is on peaceful, however, is a good reason to cut down mob hoarding. But this has been mentioned many times before and, as far as i know, noe fix has been made. So go ahead and cap the mobs per chunk (if possible) but don't make such shitty reasons for doing so.

Everyone builds a grinder, solo or not. The reasoning was that grinding excessively is essential in multiplayer, a boring and lame thing that doesn't belong in the game. It takes away from time actually playing. Not everybody has a gigantic mega-grinder that gets you to level 30 in 5 minutes. Go back and read the post again because your reading comprehension is terrible.

[RevStoningpot]

no your arguments are terrible. How is spending a month building a giant machine not "time actually playing" building shit is half of what the game is about. go play a first person shooter if you want a game that's 100% fighting. There is nothing essential about grinders in single or multi player. I have a grinder and i don't even like pvp. i use it to make tools and enchantments being random rather than by choice is why grinders are a must, since all the effort geting to level 30 could be wasted on shit enchantments.

[Cinnabars]

As it's been said, one of the big reasons people use grinders is to allow for faster building by way of efficiency. This totally fucks up the systems that I use literally all the time to help speed up the building process. If nerfing grinders would only affect combat enchantments then I might not have an issue with this.

One of the reasons that Xestia was saying he didn't like enchantments in /world is because he would sit at his grinder all day in order to get the perfect armor and didn't want to risk losing it. That is totally how I used to feel when I would go into /world with protection 4 stuff. This would only be more of an incentive not to fight.

I think that if the enchantment ban is lifted in 1.8, I will be more willing to fight. It won't take nearly as much time to get good armor in the next update so I will be more willing to risk stuff.

For me, this will have the exact opposite effect of the one you are hoping for. If this is implemented I won't be fighting with enchanted gear.

[RevStoningpot]

to that end i have boxes full of armor dropped in my grinder. This is what i use when i go to fight, which is rare and i have way to much leather and gold armor so i should get out more. In fact having too much grinder loot is one of the main reason i go out to fight. People are baffled when i die in an explosion of bones or rotten flesh. But as i said at first i have no problem with a mob/chunk limit but just not for the retarded reasons being brought up here.

[morl0ck]

Nobody needs to get touchy-feely about it. I have no problems with grinders themselves, just the extent that they're used. I have like 5 different kinds at my base and use them all the time. And will continue to use them until there's a better, more fun-efficient option.

That being said, having no more efficient way to build stuff pre-enchantment didn't stop people from building cool shit. It was more impressive because it was more challenging. The most famous cities on the server were built pre-enchantment.

Go ahead and bitch, moan and call me "retarded" or whatever, if it helps you feel better about yourself. You know that grinding was never intended, is stupid and takes away all challenge of the game (what the fuck does survival hardcore even mean???). Mojang will probably end up fixing it anyway.

[RevStoningpot]

The most famous cities on the server were built pre-enchantment.

oh really and which cites are those?

[FoSchnizzle]

What many of you seem to miss is that no one is asking to nerf enchants. There will still be the exact same enchantments, with the exact same efficiencies and sharpnesses. The only difference is that it will be less effective to sit at a grinder, and that it will be more efficient for players to go out and actually hunt mobs, making things slightly more challenging to obtain. This is proposed as an alternative to the ban on enchantments. I agree with it because grinders are an exploitation of something that Mojang is just too lazy to fix themselves, and actual effort should be put into enchantments. No one is saying that you won't still have the opportunity to use Efficiency V picks or Sharpness V swords, just that you'll actually have to work for them, which seems to be something that many of you are opposed to.

[LoneSoldier55]

If mojang had to fix this they'd have to completely re-work mob spawning rules or add a lengthy list of checks to see if the rules are being abused.
combine this with the aforementioned problem of mojang not giving a shit because they're already rolling in gold, it will never happen.

[morl0ck]

I get that, and if you want to make the game harder, then join a Hardcore server. I'm not going to accept my grinder being nerfed that I worked months on building.

Dude, darkroom grinders wouldn't be affected like Rev said, so you shouldn't care. Spawner grinders take a couple hours to set up, so if it's that type, sorry but you wasted a bunch of time for nothing. Your month's long projects won't be nerfed so you guys can continue to grind 24/7 if you so desire.

[LoneSoldier55]

What many of you seem to miss is that no one is asking to nerf enchants. There will still be the exact same enchantments, with the exact same efficiencies and sharpnesses. The only difference is that it will be less effective to sit at a grinder, and that it will be more efficient for players to go out and actually hunt mobs, making things slightly more challenging to obtain. This is proposed as an alternative to the ban on enchantments. I agree with it because grinders are an exploitation of something that Mojang is just too lazy to fix themselves, and actual effort should be put into enchantments. No one is saying that you won't still have the opportunity to use Efficiency V picks or Sharpness V swords, just that you'll actually have to work for them, which seems to be something that many of you are opposed to.

I get that, and if you want to make the game harder, then join a Hardcore server. I'm not going to accept my grinder being nerfed that I worked months on building.

>he thinks simpvp isn't a hardcore server
sonnyd where the fuck have you been