Enable TNT Duping in the Immediate Spawn Region (TNT Duping Compromise)

[ostrich1414]

Over the last two years, I, and many others, have essentially given up all hope on TNT duping ever being re-enabled on SimPvP again. Although I would love to see it become re-enabled serverwide, I acknowledge that that is highly unlikely anytime soon, and I thus don't see any purpose in arguing for its serverwide return.

That being said, earlier today I heard an idea that really grabbed my attention as something both feasible and largely uncontroversial--essentially, a TNT duping compromise. MoWobbler (who is also an admin) suggested that, instead of re-enabling TNT duping all across the server like it was pre-2021, we could enable TNT duping within a very strict limit at spawn. For example: TNT duping could be enabled within 1000x1000 blocks of spawn, and once you cross the 1000x1000 border, it reverts back to being disabled. I think this is a fair compromise for a plethora of reasons, several of which I will list below.

1.) The Lavacast Problem: First and foremost, lavacasts have been a crippling issue for SimPvP's spawn since 2019, and have objectively worsened over time. As a longtime SimPvP player, I can vividly remember spawn pre-2018, when lavacasts were few and far between: game performance was much better, and spawn was far more active and lively on a consistent basis. Now, because of the numerous lavacasts crammed within the immediate spawn region, serious lag is widespread, including (but not limited to) poor FPS performance and random game freezes every couple seconds. I also personally believe that these lavacasts have helped to reduce activity at spawn on a consistent basis, and spawn activity really only occurs when players are coming together to try and repair spawn (often a direct result of the lavacasts' existences themselves).

While yes, manual TNT is an option, it is a laughably poor option at eradicating spawn's lavacasts, and I doubt very many players would actively consider manually placing TNT as an effective method of helping reduce spawn lag. If TNT duping were enabled within an immediate range of spawn (again, say 1000x1000), these horrible lavacasts could be dealt with effectively without TNT duping spilling out into the less-lavacasted areas of spawn. I think TNT duping as a method of destroying lavacasts is the only effective method of doing so and a necessity thanks to their detrimental strain on SimPvP's spawn, both in terms of player performance and community events.

2.) The Griefing Argument: One argument I have seen many admins make nowadays is the use of TNT duping as the server's most destructive form of griefing. While I personally think that TNT duping as a griefing mechanic has been historically slim, and would be unlikely to rise in popularity should TNT duping ever be enabled serverwide, I am once again not arguing for this. Instead, I think restricting TNT duping to an immediate spawn zone would also maintain a lack of griefing because--and let's be realistic here, avoid the strawman arguments--very, very few players build within 1000x1000 of spawn. Since 2021, the first year in which TNT duping was fully disabled, I have seen virtually no major projects this close to spawn; they are typically further out, around roughly 2000 or 3000 blocks from spawn, but rarely within 1000 blocks. And those that are built within 1000 blocks of spawn are almost always griefed, without question, and without the use of TNT duping. To claim that a base will last within 1000 blocks of spawn indefinitely is disingenuous at best, and just incorrect at worst.

Furthermore, there is a noticeable lack of historic bases within 1000x1000 blocks of spawn. You can still find many historic bases in the greater spawn area--Tamarisk, Castle Snowfrog, Litargirio's Tower, etc.--but none of these bases are within 1000x1000 of spawn, since, as I had previously alluded to, being that close to spawn is a death sentence, and there are far too many lavacasts in the area to offer any feasible building locations. For those who love SimPvP history like myself, and wish to protect it, also like myself, I think you can agree that 1000x1000 at spawn is not a hotspot for historic SimPvP locations. As such, I would feel comfortable allowing TNT duping to be used within this range.

3.) The Compromise Argument: Again, I am not arguing for TNT duping to be re-enabled serverwide, I highly doubt this will ever happen, as I believe Yukarion and the other admins have made up their minds. That being said, a large majority of the SimPvP community supports TNT duping over those who do not support it. As of the writing of this post (February 4th, 2022), the official SimPvP Discord lists its TNT duping vote as 99 for, 16 against. Also as of the writing of this post, the most recent pro-TNT duping forum post poll lists the vote as 25 for, 5 against. While the admins do not want TNT duping, it is blatantly clear that the community does.

I think enabling TNT duping within 1000x1000 is a stellar compromise. Firstly, players will not be able to use TNT duping for their own gain at their own bases, something which I believe Yukar was firmly against at first. Secondly, relevant and historical bases will be safe from griefing. Thirdly, TNT duping can be used to combat the issue most pro-TNT dupers want it for--lavacast removal. I don't really care if TNT duping is allowed throughout the rest of the server if I can at least use it at spawn to reduce FPS lag for myself and others. I think this is a very fair compromise that can satisfy both parties.

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Of course, there are many other smaller reasons why I think this is worthwhile. Very few players want the admins to meddle with spawn using worldedit or other forms of direct admin removal, so I believe putting spawn repair in the hands of the people with TNT duping is the best alternative. Furthermore, removing lavacasts and repairing spawn has always drawn many players to the region in the form of large community events (as seen with SKRT back in August 2020, for example) where dozens of players came together to unite and remove lavacasts using TNT duping, and were largely successful. These community events are pretty fun, and just generally wholesome.

Anyways, I think enabling TNT duping within the immediate spawn area, preferably 1000x1000, would be a monumental decision and a fair compromise that would have a long-lasting positive impact on spawn. The fact that MoWobbler, an admin himself, conceived this idea proves its validity: an avid plugin designer himself, Mo seemed certain that he could make this work successfully. I would like to see what the SimPvP community at large thinks of this idea, especially the admins themselves, and I hope to see it someday come to fruition.

[MoWobbler]

I would like to clarify that I am confident that this is possible, but I'm not sure if I would be able to figure it out. I definitely support this though. Lavacasts are too powerful without tnt duping and it would be nice to have more activity at spawn. The arguments that ostrich used for this are the same arguments I have. If the other admins would be okay with it I would try to figure out how to make this work

[Nebuelaz]

I think that this is a good idea. I have refused to head to spawn as much as possible due to it being incredibly laggy. I would love any solution to help alleviate the problem there. I would say this has some pretty noteworthy upsides and almost no downside. I think a good size area for TnT Duping would be... hmmm... 15 by 15 mil out. Sound good?
In all seriousness, I'd personally like TnT Duping back completely, however I will stay on topic and say that I think this comprimise 1k/1k x/y, is a good idea and would love spawn to be playable again.

[Laztec]

Perfectly explained. The 200x200 no-flow zone was a great addition, however even if this entire zone is excavated, the huge FPS spikes when crossing chunk borders in the immediate spawn region will persist due to the many lavacasts outside of this zone coming into render distance.

Enabling TNT duping in a localized region (1000x1000) would even the playing-field and allow players to remove many of these lavacasts in a feasible manner, as manual mining and TNTing really is not feasible when faced with the ease of somebody constructing a new lavacast.

Performance boosts and increased community engagement sounds fantastic not only for new players but for the existing community.