Jail Appeal

[GentleGiant69]

Not gonna leave a long thing here but I think 1 year overkill. Minor offenses that were non-intional and served no benefit should get 1 month jail warnings imo.

[Burger]

In the case of an established and legit active player doing something utterly harmless (but technically illegal), I don't see any reason why an admin can't just whisper at them to stop doing what they're doing. This rigid adherence to "the rules" doesn't help anyone. Seriously, who benefits from this?

[Nikoxlas]

In the case of an established and legit active player doing something utterly harmless (but technically illegal), I don't see any reason why an admin can't just whisper at them to stop doing what they're doing. This rigid adherence to "the rules" doesn't help anyone. Seriously, who benefits from this?

I couldn't agree more with Burger.

Banning DKC for a whole year for something that doesn't hurt anyone or what he can take any advantage of, thus putting him on the same level as xrayers / people with kill aura or serious hacks, it just doesn't make sense to me. It is killing an active part of the community without getting anything from it. A warning or even a small ban would be perfectly understood because it is understandable that he has broken a rule, but what he has done is very, very far from serious cheaters. It literally doesnt affect in anything to the server or to any player. Idk, IMO I think that we are not robots, we are humans and that allows us to consider the context and adapt the sentence accordingly.

[DKC]

In the case of an established and legit active player doing something utterly harmless (but technically illegal), I don't see any reason why an admin can't just whisper at them to stop doing what they're doing. This rigid adherence to "the rules" doesn't help anyone. Seriously, who benefits from this?

I couldn't agree more with Burger.

Banning DKC for a whole year for something that doesn't hurt anyone or what he can take any advantage of, thus putting him on the same level as xrayers / people with kill aura or serious hacks, it just doesn't make sense to me. It is killing an active part of the community without getting anything from it. A warning or even a small ban would be perfectly understood because it is understandable that he has broken a rule, but what he has done is very, very far from serious cheaters. It literally doesnt affect in anything to the server or to any player. Idk, IMO I think that we are not robots, we are humans and that allows us to consider the context and adapt the sentence accordingly.

That is precisely my poiny. I think as a community we need to let our vices with this decision be known to Mo and Yukar.

[SengornLeopard]

I think a year long jail is appropriate, If the rules were being enforced the way they claim to be enforced, the jail would be permanent.

1.) DKC did not gain anything, would you let x-rayers go free if they always tossed their diamonds into lava after finding them? They gained nothing.

2.) DKC used a clicker to do something no normal vanilla player does. That is clearly suspect and deserves for him to ask before he used it.

3.) The thing he did- any rational person would know it is against the rules. I highly suspect he is merely claiming ignorance about rules for leniency to get people on his side. Ignorance is not meant to be an excuse anyway as per point #5.

4.) This is not a new rule added in, this has been a rule all along. There is no valid comparison between this or using the vanilla mechanic to find diamonds with clay.

5.) Every time you log into the server, this message is displayed prominently on your screen: Cheating is not allowed, and will result in a permanent jail with no warning or second chance. This rule is enfored very strictly (The misspelling is in the actual announcement)
-Either this message should be enforced the way it claims, or it should be changed to reflect how the server actually operates.

6.) It's not that he used ghost blocks, honestly. That is not the point at all. He used a program or equipment to preform actions no vanilla player could achieve. The 'significant advantage' part of the rules haven't been taken into consideration for many past judgments by the administration, so why bring it up here? Several things which are forbidden do not actually provide a significant advantage in terms of game play.

If we want DKC to get special leniency for breaking the rules, and we do not adhere to the log in message's strict guidelines, then It is reasonable to demand that this leniency of giving warnings and short jailing's be offered to everyone. And to be offered retroactively.

[KoriJenkins]

In the case of an established and legit active player doing something utterly harmless (but technically illegal), I don't see any reason why an admin can't just whisper at them to stop doing what they're doing. This rigid adherence to "the rules" doesn't help anyone. Seriously, who benefits from this?

I couldn't agree more with Burger.

Banning DKC for a whole year for something that doesn't hurt anyone or what he can take any advantage of, thus putting him on the same level as xrayers / people with kill aura or serious hacks, it just doesn't make sense to me. It is killing an active part of the community without getting anything from it. A warning or even a small ban would be perfectly understood because it is understandable that he has broken a rule, but what he has done is very, very far from serious cheaters. It literally doesnt affect in anything to the server or to any player. Idk, IMO I think that we are not robots, we are humans and that allows us to consider the context and adapt the sentence accordingly.

That is precisely my poiny. I think as a community we need to let our vices with this decision be known to Mo and Yukar.

You have a pony?

The main issue is, Yukar doesn't really care about community opinion as far as I've been able to discern and is unlikely to alter his decision because of external pressure rather than his mind being legitimately changed.

The other issue is that I think you're leaning on the wrong point to justify being given clemency. "I didn't know" doesn't really make sense. Did you really think an autoclicker set to speeds so high you could literally stand on a ghost block as if it were there normally is allowed just because you didn't see a rule saying it wasn't? Isn't it kinda common sense that anything that does impossible gameplay isn't allowed (and bear in mind that was impossible gameplay)?

You'd more likely to convince the admins by arguing primarily that what you did was so insignificant that a warning was the most reasonable response to it.

Just my opinion, that's what I'd be doing in your shoes.

[SengornLeopard]

The rules aren't enforced fairly and equally in all cases, it is clear that the harshness is different depending on how active a player is and how much they are liked. I highly urge staff to change the log in message to reflect how the server operates. Honestly is better than lying just to try and dissuade potential cheaters.

[KoriJenkins]

The rules aren't enforced fairly and equally in all cases, it is clear that the harshness is different depending on how active a player is and how much they are liked. I highly urge staff to change the log in message to reflect how the server operates. Honestly is better than lying just to try and dissuade potential cheaters.

Eliminating bias is impossible. Right now, however, it's probably fairly high against him if I had to guess. Mainly, he wasn't respected in the community for his actions against bases, and those actions likely didn't endear him to the admins either.

I've said it before, clipchip would never have been jailed over this. I think virtually everyone on Sim can agree on that point, and it's irrelevant as to whether he would or wouldn't have done it. So the question is, why was DKC? Is it bias? Did they just not like him? Had he not played enough? What is "playing enough?" Is hours all that matters or hours per day? If hours per day is all that matters, _DKC has .4 more than clipchip.

The point I've made, though, is that there is no way DKC can realistically say he didn't know it wasn't allowed. At best you're abusing a non-vanilla mod to do non-vanilla things, at worst you appear to be flyhacking.

[DKC]

In the case of an established and legit active player doing something utterly harmless (but technically illegal), I don't see any reason why an admin can't just whisper at them to stop doing what they're doing. This rigid adherence to "the rules" doesn't help anyone. Seriously, who benefits from this?

I couldn't agree more with Burger.

Banning DKC for a whole year for something that doesn't hurt anyone or what he can take any advantage of, thus putting him on the same level as xrayers / people with kill aura or serious hacks, it just doesn't make sense to me. It is killing an active part of the community without getting anything from it. A warning or even a small ban would be perfectly understood because it is understandable that he has broken a rule, but what he has done is very, very far from serious cheaters. It literally doesnt affect in anything to the server or to any player. Idk, IMO I think that we are not robots, we are humans and that allows us to consider the context and adapt the sentence accordingly.

That is precisely my poiny. I think as a community we need to let our vices with this decision be known to Mo and Yukar.

You have a pony?

The main issue is, Yukar doesn't really care about community opinion as far as I've been able to discern and is unlikely to alter his decision because of external pressure rather than his mind being legitimately changed.

The other issue is that I think you're leaning on the wrong point to justify being given clemency. "I didn't know" doesn't really make sense. Did you really think an autoclicker set to speeds so high you could literally stand on a ghost block as if it were there normally is allowed just because you didn't see a rule saying it wasn't? Isn't it kinda common sense that anything that does impossible gameplay isn't allowed (and bear in mind that was impossible gameplay)?

You'd more likely to convince the admins by arguing primarily that what you did was so insignificant that a warning was the most reasonable response to it.

Just my opinion, that's what I'd be doing in your shoes.

I feel like there is a lot of misinformation on what actually happened. Essentially when I was in spawn I noticed I could make ghost blocks if I clicked really fast and the server was laggy. With this information I was really bored and set my auto clicker to drag clicking speeds and started placing blocks. Despite popular belief it was not active at all times I just turned it on made a ghost block and stood on it. That being said it really gave me no advantage what so ever and from what I was told people had done it in the past and received no punishment at all. What I did was extremely insignificant and I've tried to make that apparent in all the times I've discussed the topic, but unfortunately some members of the Sim community hold a vicious double standard when it comes to players. I've messaged Mo recently to see if he would be interested in going over my appeal and seeing the points I and many others have brought up, but I do not think I can do this alone. We have to voice our dismay over this similarly to the clay patch exploit. Also regarding that, there has been a lot of talk about me "knowing" it was bannable because of the rules and to that I say that presumption is completely ridiculous. In my case, the same as the diamond exploit, I was not made aware of the true rules of using an auto clicker, the same way IDeny and Resuki were also made not aware. The only difference is that I used an auto clicker. Some of the community thinks it is because of this 3rd party software that it is so different, but to that I ask you this. How is using a software that was already allowed by the admins, all be it incorrectly, any different than using an alternative mining method for diamonds. Using an auto clicker is no different than mining diamonds, it only matters in the rules in the way you use either thing. That being said, I think this whole "ThEy ArEnT ComPARable" thing is ridiculous. Both instances it was clearly in the rules it was not allowed, the only thing allowing for them to get a temp jail was the ignorance around the topic. But to comment on the insignificance of what I did is genuinely kind of tiresome. If me running around bored at spawn making ghost blocks and standing on them was as bad as someone xraying or hacking, me and many others do not see the comparison. I am fully aware I did this by breaking the rules, but the break in the rules I committed was so small and so insignificant, that it genuinely would not have affected me or anyone else if I did it or not. All I got out of this was a small amount of entertainment while running around spawn. This being said, the after math of my rule breaking and the breaking of the rules that occurred during the clay patch exploit is not comparable. The clay patch exploit was just glorified xray and allowed players to make a profit off of their exploit/rule breaking. I got nothing in return to my rule breaking at all. I did not recieve diamonds, a major part of the server economy, or an advantage over new players. Another part of the recent argument I would like to address is that I was using this maliciously, which I never did. The only time I used an auto clicker that went against the rules is the time under investigation and discussion. Matter of fact, once I was made known of the rules when Yukar made his announcement of the rule changes regarding auto clickers and easy place mode, I stopped using them altogether because of the confusion. I did not mean to use it against the rules nor did I benefit from it. Treating me like a low down hacker when I've been nothing but cooperative when it comes to allowed stuff on Sim is absurd. Anytime I use a new mod I always ask the admins whether it is allowed or not because I enjoy playing on Sim and do not wish to break the rules. Another thing I would like to address is this kind of drama between groups revolving around my jail. I do not wish for anyone in the community to be kept in a state of unfair treatment just because I do not agree with them or dislike them. That is completely childish and I think as a people we need to move away from this behaviour. Please come to this conversation with an unbiased opinion. Not a childishly charged one.

[MutualistManiac]

I'll make my position on this clear and simple. I have had to deal with dumbassery from the application of the "oh so consistent" rules for years on this server and from all of that I know one thing for sure, there is no consistency. I was jailed for a year for a very similar thing to what DKC was, I never used the illegal thing for my own benefit too, but it didn't matter. And do you know what, NOT A SINGLE ADMIN has told me they would do that again? Jail me that is. However, here we see them doing just that.

In 2020 there was another guy caught doing THE EXACT SAME THING that I did to get jailed. He only got 6 months. Is that fair? I get a year he gets 6 months, and why, because they felt like it. So don't appeal to some imagined consistency in these "rules" that Yukar has specifically conjured up to be inconsistent. (He admitted that)

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not legal to use hacked clients on the server if you do not benefit from them? I thought that was an established rule. At least that is what I was TOLD BY AN ADMIN when I joined the server in 2017. If that is not the case then jail me again because I guarantee that I have logged on with a hacked client at least once or twice. To be frank, we all use illegal mods. LETS BE FUCKING HONEST. The only difference here is that we didn't get caught.

tbh the server would be a better place without DKC, but it isn't really about that for me. I can't help but feel that the only reason some people aren't jailed for this stuff and others are is due to their popularity and time spent on the server more than it is to do with them actually breaking the rules. The mods don't ban me anymore BECAUSE THEY LIKE ME, and no one cares about DKC except his silly preteen friends. How is that for consistent and "fair".