Multiworld

[mitte90]

worldrulers post was well structured and to the point urs was filled with personal reasoning and no hard points. all u have said after are like i said "its no difference". maybe its me that cant handle ur text but u dont make any attempt to explain ur reasoning.

[mitte90]

the only argument i have heard from u are thats its no difference from what we have now...

Argument 1: Multiworld doesn't fit with what SimplicityPvP is supposed to be
Argument 2: This is completely useless
Argument 3: This creates less PvP be splitting the playerbase between two worlds

thank u.

#1 no it dont if it was yukar would not consider it. and its no difference to tex nether,
#2 it solves the "it takes to long to go to PVP from more then 5k"
#3 it will not split the playerbase. not mere then the nether do.

strange i have counter those arguments before. and i did not read ur post:P

[YoungsMC]

worldrulers post was well structured and to the point urs was filled with personal reasoning and no hard points. all u have said after are like i said "its no difference". maybe its me that cant handle ur text but u dont make any attempt to explain ur reasoning.

Mine was filled with personal reasoning? Funny, I was directly quoting him for the anecdote I gave. No point in arguing if I write well or not though. From what I know you agree that adding useless plugins is bad. So "its no difference" is already enough.

#1 Yes it does, I took a lot of time into explaining this.
#2 That's the entire problem with it. We're removing challenges and aspects of the game.
#3 People don't go to the nether for PvP. People go to spawn for PvP, but people will also start going to the new PvP world for PvP.

[mitte90]

i dont think this plugin are useless ( it solves the "it takes to long to go to PVP from more then 5k").

#1 are hard to debate.. but i dont think it is and ur reasoning did not make me feel different about it.
#2 how do it remove challange? all it removes are the time it take to get to the place u want. we can have a protected portal in spawn.. but this will re add the "it takes to long to go to PVP from more then 5k"
#3 people did go to the spawn, now they go to the pvp world whats the differens? again did read ur post but it did not make me feel any different about it

[YoungsMC]

i dont think this plugin are useless ( it solves the "it takes to long to go to PVP from more then 5k").

#1 are hard to debate.. but i dont think it is and ur reasoning did not make me feel different about it.
#2 how do it remove challange? all it removes are the time it take to get to the place u want. we can have a protected portal in spawn.. but this will re add the "it takes to long to go to PVP from more then 5k"
#3 people did go to the spawn, now they go to the pvp world whats the differens? again did read ur post but it did not make me feel any different about it

#1 Show me your reasoning them pls
#2 Like I said it's not good to be screwing around with removing aspects of the game and adding new ones.
#3 Half of the people at spawn, half of the people in the PvP world. Unless you want to say that all of them go to the PvP world ruining the "you don't have to use it" point.

[mitte90]

#1 my reasoning are that it solves a problem and are something i believe everyone can live with.
#2 what aspect are removed?
#3 why go to spawn when u can go to the pvpworld? + u can go to the spawn change to the pvp-world and jump between them. problem solved

[YoungsMC]

#1 my reasoning are that it solves a problem and are something i believe everyone can live with.
#2 what aspect are removed?
#3 why go to spawn when u can go to the pvpworld? + u can go to the spawn change to the pvp-world and jump between them. problem solved

#1 How does it solve the problem? Again, this is no different from spawn
#2 Travel, transportation, etc. is a challenge. I think I mentioned how the decision between how far away you live from spawn is an aspect of the game in my big post. The repercussion of living far away is that you it's hard to get back to spawn. The repercussion of living close to spawn is that you're not as safe.

I don't like the idea of Teleportaiton commands or portals because that negates the need of the building of quick and effective transportation. This means that minecart rails and nether passageways are rendered completely obsolite. The reason that the nether was added and as well as functional minecart systems is BECAUSE it takes so long to travel by foot in minecraft, if there is a frequented area you can go through, you can build a railway to and from it to ferry you, other players, and supplies along. And you can even save 8 times the rails by simply using the nether. Now of course, there are complications to things like this. There are pro's and con's to making a frequented rail system that you have to keep in mind. What if someone finds it? Make a failsafe.
Teleportation commands and portals render the modes of transportation added to minecraft completely useless. "Why should I spend 32 iron and gold blocks on rails when I can just use 10 obsidian to make an instant teleportation to anywhere?"

Just consider that.

Another reason that we shouldn't give people transportation.



Another reason there too.

#3 Great! So now you've just admitted that "you dont have to use it if you dont like it" is no longer valid, yes?

[worldruler086]

Hi. I'd rather have no limit at all than this. I hate to be pessimistic, but I'd take any of the other options over this.

Tl;Dr- As someone who wants the limit to stay, I'd rather have no limit than this. This breaks the reason Simplicity was made in the first place. Yukar, and apparently a good amount of the regulars we have right now, wanted a server that wasn't riddled with complicated plugins that interfere with how we play minecraft. I want to escape this, even if it means no limit at all. Whether you like the limit or not, it should be in your best interest to avoid this. To those of you who want the limit removed, keep in mind that it most likely will be removed even if this doesn't pass. And if you like the limit, keep in mind that this suggestion won't boost PvP. If you're not against this, please read the entire post. <3 <3 <3

I'm assuming that this is a compromise. A number of people here want to remove the limit, and when trying to replace the PvP lost, thinking a PvP world will help.
After speaking with a few supporters of the multiworld, this appeared to be the idea that this threatening suggestion has been based upon.

It doesn't interrupt the vanilla play style, it's just like adding a continuous pvp event that doesn't require an admin to host it.

I'd say that "Fallacy" would be a better word rather than "Idea."

Right now, we have a place to PvP at: Spawn. It's a common meeting place, when people are looking for a fight they come to spawn. It's the same thing for the PvP world. The basics of the suggestion is that it's just an arena. Calling it "PvP world" or a "continuous pvp event" won't make it less similar.

There's only two differences between this is spawn. Both of them I loathe.
-You can teleport to it
-We have a new gluey, complicated, plugin that will include teleportation and a / command.

I have many thoughts on the first difference. The people I have chatted with about this, for the most part, thought this was the good side of the suggestion.



That's how the server used to be. Before 1.2, and before this thread was made.
This is no different from /home and /spawn, the suggestion just decorates and glamorizes it by making it look like a completely different world.
The first day I played on the server, I just tested out /spawn. That message came up, and I was thrilled. From what I know, Yukar wrote that. Has he flipflopped on this? The point of the server is to avoid things like teleportation. When we add teleportation we do two things that are not simple, nor vanilla.

If you break teleportation down further, you see that two things happen. If we add teleportation:

-We remove an aspect of the game
-We add a different aspect of the game

The aspect removed is the challenge of travel. The aspect added is the ability the changes to PvP now that teleportation is added (Have your buddies teleport to the PvP world if you start losing a fight). If we're adding, removing, and personalizing aspects and challenges of the game, we're taking fun out of the original minecraft. This server isn't vanilla, but it's supposed to be simple. Sure, now people out far might actually be able to get to spawn where they can PvP. But that's part of the aspect we're removing. When choosing a place to live, you have to consider these things. Do you want to live so far out that you can't PvP without a plugin letting you teleport, or are you going to PvP without relying on a plugin doing the work of travel for you? Teleportation just doesn't fit.

Multiworld=Teleportation=Stargates

I think stargates are retarded..... there's a reason our server is called simplicity. From my knowledge of this server, yukar wanted a simple anarchy server when he created it, no? We already have enough plugins as is.

The next difference between this and spawn is that we have a new gluey, complicated, plugin that will include teleportation and a / command.
Going back to the entire point of simplicity, we shouldn't go around adding plugins like this. Willy nilly with only a 7 day vote? That's not a good idea.

This server isn't vanilla. And more importantly is whether we have fun or not. But let me explain.
'I played on ANOTHER survival-vanilla-anarchy server prior to this one, and it did something similar.' A certain server owner suggested a plugin called factions. And the community, most of them unaware of what was about to be added, let it happen. Even though the vanilla wasn't what the server was supposed to be, it was still the reason so many of us played on it. And then server died.

If it's not fun and it's not vanilla then it shouldn't be added. The amount of PvP we have on the hypothetical world won't be different from spawn.

When should we expect the pvp dimension to be introduced? I'm really looking forward to it :)

I really just don't get it Gnatogryz. Are you looking into the long-term effects of this? Consider this for what it really is- a new spawn and teleportation to that spawn. How can we expect PvP from this?

I urge you all to rethink this. A lot of us are voting in favor of this just out of the desperation for the limit being removed. This isn't a compromise. It's removing the limit, but also making the server worse for everyone- not just PvP'ers or people outside the limit. Very few of the people voting for it actually take interest to the ability to teleport to spawn. Like I said, I'd rather have no limit than this. And when ideas like this are close to being successful, no limit at all becomes a good compromise.

Once again, take the time to reconsider your vote. A vote for "no" isn't a vote supporting the limit. It's a vote against crazy plugins that ruin the purpose of the server.
vote "no" pls pls pls <3

Alright, let's do this!

Realize this is my opinion, and I'll try to remain logical with my rebuttal. And Youngs, thanks for giving me a nice post to rebuttal :D


"I'd rather have no limit at all than this. I hate to be pessimistic, but I'd take any of the other options over this."

I'd like to point out that the limit will be removed with this option, but I'm assuming the issue here is the PVP world. As for why I like this idea, it isn't for whether the limit goes, I honestly think this will appeal your side of the fence. Perhaps I'm wrong to assume this, but this would allow you to hunt people at the spawn, as well as fight in the PVP world, which, if Yukar agrees with what we were talking about a few pages prior to your post here, could have arenas for 1v1 fights an arena events, which could be specially designed for variety. I think this is a WONDERFUL idea, as you get the best of both worlds (quite literally). PEople can go far out, and people can pvp at events.

It doesn't interrupt the vanilla play style, it's just like adding a continuous pvp event that doesn't require an admin to host it.

"I'd say that "Fallacy" would be a better word rather than "Idea.""

It *wouldn't* interrupt vanilla gameplay anymore then events do. I know you said you wanted more pvp, so you wanted more events. How is this any different? In fact, this seems like MORE of what you want, as this will give us MUCH more flexibility with events. The event city won't be part of the world. I could see this as being the "hub" of the server, while the main vanilla world would make for the majority of players. Think of this as more of the Olympics.

"There's only two differences between this is spawn. Both of them I loathe.
-You can teleport to it
-We have a new gluey, complicated, plugin that will include teleportation and a / command."

-Yes, but you need to be idle for an extended period of time. You'd have to teleport to it, as it wouldn't be in the world, but a world on it's own.
-This isn't any worse then the limit, which prevents a lot of actions that the player does. If the compromise is fun, this would be a mere issue, with the fun overwhelming it. After all, its about how fun it is, not if its vanilla, right?

"This is no different from /home and /spawn, the suggestion just decorates and glamorizes it by making it look like a completely different world.
The first day I played on the server, I just tested out /spawn. That message came up, and I was thrilled. From what I know, Yukar wrote that. Has he flipflopped on this? The point of the server is to avoid things like teleportation. When we add teleportation we do two things that are not simple, nor vanilla."

Are you sure you read his post? We wouldn't have /spawn, not /home. We'd instead have /pvpworld and /vanilla. You would merely be teleported (after a set time of idling) to where you were at the world. If I was 5k from my base, tele to the pvpworld, then to the vanilla, I'd still be 5k from my base! This is NOT the same as /spawn and /home! They are completely different! I can't tele to spawn if this passes. I can't teleport to home unless I was already home when I went to the pvpworld, so do NOT demonize this. You know damn well what this is, and especially what it isn't.

"The aspect removed is the challenge of travel. The aspect added is the ability the changes to PvP now that teleportation is added (Have your buddies teleport to the PvP world if you start losing a fight). If we're adding, removing, and personalizing aspects and challenges of the game, we're taking fun out of the original minecraft. This server isn't vanilla, but it's supposed to be simple. Sure, now people out far might actually be able to get to spawn where they can PvP. But that's part of the aspect we're removing. When choosing a place to live, you have to consider these things. Do you want to live so far out that you can't PvP without a plugin letting you teleport, or are you going to PvP without relying on a plugin doing the work of travel for you? Teleportation just doesn't fit."

How is the travel point any different then the limit? I'm sorry, but piani's response against my arguments against was basically "traveling took too much time, and we were limited because of this". I understand its a bit different, but still. Remember, as you said, VANILLA IS IRRELEVANT IF THE OVERALL EXPERIENCE IS FUN. If you're against the concept of this, why are you for events? There isn't a difference minus now events would have a world of their own. This would also allow groups that could never meet at a set time together do events. Once again, this ISN'T PVP in the sense of "random encounters" and "looting", these are arenas and events. Once again, PVP as we know it won't change, but events will be easier for everyone to do. If I kill someone in a pvp arena, I don't destroy their base. This isn't raiding, this is what I would instead refer as either "sparring matches" or "arena fights". This would make that kind of pvp easier, as it would make going to the events and back much easier.

"The next difference between this and spawn is that we have a new gluey, complicated, plugin that will include teleportation and a / command.
Going back to the entire point of simplicity, we shouldn't go around adding plugins like this. Willy nilly with only a 7 day vote? That's not a good idea."

I'll agree with you on the vote time. Yukar, this seems a bit half-assed. This reminds me of the vote prior to the official vote for the limit.

"This server isn't vanilla. And more importantly is whether we have fun or not. But let me explain.
'I played on ANOTHER survival-vanilla-anarchy server prior to this one, and it did something similar.' A certain server owner suggested a plugin called factions. And the community, most of them unaware of what was about to be added, let it happen. Even though the vanilla wasn't what the server was supposed to be, it was still the reason so many of us played on it. And then server died.

If it's not fun and it's not vanilla then it shouldn't be added. The amount of PvP we have on the hypothetical world won't be different from spawn."

Hey, where have I seen that quote before? Was this guy on the same server I was on? Also, why is he talking about factions? This is about teleporters! It seems this person, who I will refer to as "not worldruler8", thinks that factions killed his server, and was quote mined to sound like he was against stargates, who he was actually for. Well, that's just my thoughts. Maybe we can ask "not worldruler8"...

Anyhow, once again, my rebuttals are this:
-If I catch you quote mining me again, I'll never be able to take you and your opinions seriously
-I mean it, and you even forgot to put my name there so I wouldn't notice. Good thing I have a good memory
-This isn't /spawn and /home, don't demonize this as something it isn't
-This encourages "rigged pvp", something I thought you were for like with the events like CTS.
-Don't start touting the vanilla flag, that's my job. And like you said, if the end result is fun, whether its vanilla (or optional) is irrelevant.
-I was serious about that quote mining thing.
-This acts as a hub, if players want to meet on their own, they still can. This just makes pvp arenas and events much easier to set up, as they wouldn't be in the vanilla world.

[mitte90]

#1 as i told u its a difference to us combat this statement or leave it alone. i said its hard to debate.. its a quation about ideology.. i think the limit are a bigger problem to the servers ideology but the pro limit think its acceptable same thing in this matter.
#2 ok true but without it we must have the limit and the limit are in a way already voted down (its not finished yet doh) we are not going to come around this. we need a fast way to come together atleast it wont let u tp in the main world.
#3 i still thinks it valid. u dont have to use it.. i will probably not use it EVER but i will survive as good as now when i never go to spawn. but do u WANT to pvp u probably have to use the pvp-world but u are not forced

[YoungsMC]

Alright, let's do this!

Realize this is my opinion, and I'll try to remain logical with my rebuttal. And Youngs, thanks for giving me a nice post to rebuttal :D

y u quote the whole thing

"I'd rather have no limit at all than this. I hate to be pessimistic, but I'd take any of the other options over this."

I'd like to point out that the limit will be removed with this option, but I'm assuming the issue here is the PVP world. As for why I like this idea, it isn't for whether the limit goes, I honestly think this will appeal your side of the fence. Perhaps I'm wrong to assume this, but this would allow you to hunt people at the spawn, as well as fight in the PVP world, which, if Yukar agrees with what we were talking about a few pages prior to your post here, could have arenas for 1v1 fights an arena events, which could be specially designed for variety. I think this is a WONDERFUL idea, as you get the best of both worlds (quite literally). PEople can go far out, and people can pvp at events.

That's teleportation.

It doesn't interrupt the vanilla play style, it's just like adding a continuous pvp event that doesn't require an admin to host it.

"I'd say that "Fallacy" would be a better word rather than "Idea.""

It *wouldn't* interrupt vanilla gameplay anymore then events do. I know you said you wanted more pvp, so you wanted more events. How is this any different? In fact, this seems like MORE of what you want, as this will give us MUCH more flexibility with events. The event city won't be part of the world. I could see this as being the "hub" of the server, while the main vanilla world would make for the majority of players. Think of this as more of the Olympics.

I wasn't saying that "it wouldn't interrupt the vanilla playstyle" was false (It is though, I'll get to that soon). I said that a continuous pvp event wouldn't create more PvP

"There's only two differences between this is spawn. Both of them I loathe.
-You can teleport to it
-We have a new gluey, complicated, plugin that will include teleportation and a / command."

-Yes, but you need to be idle for an extended period of time. You'd have to teleport to it, as it wouldn't be in the world, but a world on it's own.
-This isn't any worse then the limit, which prevents a lot of actions that the player does. If the compromise is fun, this would be a mere issue, with the fun overwhelming it. After all, its about how fun it is, not if its vanilla, right?

I didn't say anything about how teleportation could be abused. I've repeated this many times- This shouldn't be about whether or not we have a limit, a MultiWorld plugin is still a bad idea. Yes, it is about how fun it is. I elaborated and mentioned that further in the post. You do realize that this is an introduction, right?

"This is no different from /home and /spawn, the suggestion just decorates and glamorizes it by making it look like a completely different world.
The first day I played on the server, I just tested out /spawn. That message came up, and I was thrilled. From what I know, Yukar wrote that. Has he flipflopped on this? The point of the server is to avoid things like teleportation. When we add teleportation we do two things that are not simple, nor vanilla."

Are you sure you read his post? We wouldn't have /spawn, not /home. We'd instead have /pvpworld and /vanilla. You would merely be teleported (after a set time of idling) to where you were at the world. If I was 5k from my base, tele to the pvpworld, then to the vanilla, I'd still be 5k from my base! This is NOT the same as /spawn and /home! They are completely different! I can't tele to spawn if this passes. I can't teleport to home unless I was already home when I went to the pvpworld, so do NOT demonize this. You know damn well what this is, and especially what it isn't.

World, I'm comparing it to /spawn and /home, because there's almost no difference besides small details. Would you prefer I say /spawn and /back? You know damn well that it makes no difference whether or not MultiWorld should be added in.

"The aspect removed is the challenge of travel. The aspect added is the ability the changes to PvP now that teleportation is added (Have your buddies teleport to the PvP world if you start losing a fight). If we're adding, removing, and personalizing aspects and challenges of the game, we're taking fun out of the original minecraft. This server isn't vanilla, but it's supposed to be simple. Sure, now people out far might actually be able to get to spawn where they can PvP. But that's part of the aspect we're removing. When choosing a place to live, you have to consider these things. Do you want to live so far out that you can't PvP without a plugin letting you teleport, or are you going to PvP without relying on a plugin doing the work of travel for you? Teleportation just doesn't fit."

How is the travel point any different then the limit? I'm sorry, but piani's response against my arguments against was basically "traveling took too much time, and we were limited because of this". I understand its a bit different, but still. Remember, as you said, VANILLA IS IRRELEVANT IF THE OVERALL EXPERIENCE IS FUN. If you're against the concept of this, why are you for events? There isn't a difference minus now events would have a world of their own. This would also allow groups that could never meet at a set time together do events. Once again, this ISN'T PVP in the sense of "random encounters" and "looting", these are arenas and events. Once again, PVP as we know it won't change, but events will be easier for everyone to do. If I kill someone in a pvp arena, I don't destroy their base. This isn't raiding, this is what I would instead refer as either "sparring matches" or "arena fights". This would make that kind of pvp easier, as it would make going to the events and back much easier.

And removing concepts and challenges from the game isn't fun. You have to walk to CTS on your own. Events don't change anything or add in teleportation. How does it matter if it's random interaction or not? If you could just teleport back to CTS after you die, or get your friends to join you in CTS at any time without walking there, events and the game would lose so much depth. Another example of how teleportation ruins fundamental aspects of Minecraft. Spawn is what I would instead refer as "sparring matches" or "arena fights". Events aren't supposed to be exclusive to anyone out 10k or more blocks. It's your own choice to go so far out that you miss set fights and interactions. Another aspect of the game that teleportation ruins.

"The next difference between this and spawn is that we have a new gluey, complicated, plugin that will include teleportation and a / command.
Going back to the entire point of simplicity, we shouldn't go around adding plugins like this. Willy nilly with only a 7 day vote? That's not a good idea."

I'll agree with you on the vote time. Yukar, this seems a bit half-assed. This reminds me of the vote prior to the official vote for the limit.

extend poll time limit pls

"This server isn't vanilla. And more importantly is whether we have fun or not. But let me explain.
'I played on ANOTHER survival-vanilla-anarchy server prior to this one, and it did something similar.' A certain server owner suggested a plugin called factions. And the community, most of them unaware of what was about to be added, let it happen. Even though the vanilla wasn't what the server was supposed to be, it was still the reason so many of us played on it. And then server died.

If it's not fun and it's not vanilla then it shouldn't be added. The amount of PvP we have on the hypothetical world won't be different from spawn."

Hey, where have I seen that quote before? Was this guy on the same server I was on? Also, why is he talking about factions? This is about teleporters! It seems this person, who I will refer to as "not worldruler8", thinks that factions killed his server, and was quote mined to sound like he was against stargates, who he was actually for. Well, that's just my thoughts. Maybe we can ask "not worldruler8"...

Actually my story is coincidentally similar to yours. No rebuttal against it, just going to complain about how I made a reference to you? Lolol

Anyhow, once again, my rebuttals are this:
-If I catch you quote mining me again, I'll never be able to take you and your opinions seriously

?

-I mean it, and you even forgot to put my name there so I wouldn't notice. Good thing I have a good memory

WAT

-This isn't /spawn and /home, don't demonize this as something it isn't

What's the difference? /spawn and /back?

-This encourages "rigged pvp", something I thought you were for like with the events like CTS.

CTS is fun but this won't be groundbreaking compared to spawn if the only difference is people can teleport it. And the expenses of teleportation itself is not worth it. When we have events like CTS offering an essential reward people will actually start to play it.

-Don't start touting the vanilla flag, that's my job. And like you said, if the end result is fun, whether its vanilla (or optional) is irrelevant.

What's with this "You can't do this but I can" stuff I've been getting recently? If this isn't any different from spawn, and the only difference being that you can teleport it (Which ruins fun because we're losing fundamental aspects to the game) then the end result isn't fun. It's even less fun when the people that came here for vanilla are disappointed.

-I was serious about that quote mining thing.

Stop.

-This acts as a hub, if players want to meet on their own, they still can. This just makes pvp arenas and events much easier to set up, as they wouldn't be in the vanilla world.

Spawn is a hub.