On base finding methods

[Yukar9]

We'd like to clarify the server rules on base finding methods. Glitch abuse is not allowed, and that includes glitches that allow you to find people's coordinates. It also generally includes functionality that was never meant to allow finding people or bases.

In particular, methods that let you find players or bases from far away are not allowed, unless an admin has approved that method.

What exactly counts as permissible or not is hard to define, and comes down to each individual case.
Some things to take into consideration are the impact of the method (how overpowered it is) as well as how obvious the method is.

For example the following methods are allowed because they are considered obvious and part of the game:

• Following turtles back to where they spawned
• Following a map to where the map was created Edit: This was misspoken. Using hacks to find out where a map was created is not allowed. Extracting coords from player maps is not allowed.
• Following chunk borders after a terrain generation change

While other methods that are overpowered, non-obvious, require unintended game interactions, or require non-vanilla behavior are not allowed, for example:

• TNT ignited by arrows being used to find original shooter's location
• Anything that involves logging or revealing packet fields (such as the "thunder exploit") (revealing packet fields also includes debug logs)

New methods are inevitably going to be found, before using one you should carefully think about whether the method should be allowed or not.

Experimenting with such methods, for example to see if they work or not and then telling admins about them, is not forbidden. Only exploiting them for gain is forbidden.
In general we want to patch exploits rather than just say that they aren't allowed, so we appreciate people telling us about exploits.

Just to reiterate, methods aren't automatically allowed until we say they're banned. Ask about a method before exploiting it.

Regarding the recent wolf-related method that's been discussed, we originally said it was allowed because we underestimated the usefulness of it. In hindsight, it was too overpowered and we no longer consider it or variants of it allowed. We should have better considered the impact and usability of the method before allowing it.
Going forward, before approving new methods, we will better try to consider the impact that allowing a specific method will have.
We will also consider misrepresenting the impact of or other important facts about a method to be the same as never having asked us about the method.

However, we will not be retroactively applying this change to the wolf method.
I understand that some people will be unhappy about that, and while there are aspects of the case that might warrant punishment, I think responsibility ultimately lies with us for having allowed it, rather than anywhere else.

[Lord1]

but is anthand getting banned though

[Burger]

but is anthand getting banned though

Unfortunately they "will not be retroactively applying this change to the wolf method", so no. We'll have to wait for him to circumvent the new patch and use the exploit to destroy more bases again.

https://simplicitypvp.net/w/Finding_Wilburia

[clipchip]

Anyone who was following the current events wants AntHand banned for abusing a glitch in your own patch to continue using his wolf exploit, regardless of if you told him it could be used before attempting to fix it. If this post was supposed to be a response to that then you've brushed aside the actual point of complaints and instead just issued a generic shitty PR statement that only reiterates what most people (who don't spend all their time just trying to ruin the game for others in a barely-legal way) assumed the rules already were.

[sev2worlds]

I told myself that I wouldn't get into this discussion, but to me this is the most bullshit answer you could've given. Seriously, he used a workaround on something that you already patched, blurring the line for other players and other exploits in the future. All this is doing is making the rest of the player base more confused on what is and isn't allowed. A player on a server like this should not have to go to an admin every time they want to do something that may or may not go against the very vague and stringy rules, and the admins should not allow a "well, yeah, technically it would be legal..." approach. There should be a clear line on where it's OK and where it is not. It also doesn't help that it seems that you give special treatment to regulars instead of the "permaban" mentality that is applied to everyone else, and you not being very active in the chatrooms where discussion on these types of topics goes on. I suggest that you reconsider, because this is getting out of hand. Either reform the rules to reflect your actions or respond properly.

[CrackyJoe]

New methods are inevitably going to be found, before using one you should carefully think about whether the method should be allowed or not.

Experimenting with such methods, for example to see if they work or not and then telling admins about them, is not forbidden. Only exploiting them for gain is forbidden.
In general we want to patch exploits rather than just say that they aren't allowed, so we appreciate people telling us about exploits.

....

We will also consider misrepresenting the impact of or other important facts about a method to be the same as never having asked us about the method.

However, we will not be retroactively applying this change to the wolf method.
I understand that some people will be unhappy about that, and while there are aspects of the case that might warrant punishment, I think responsibility ultimately lies with us for having allowed it, rather than anywhere else.

Yukar if the players are the ones finding the methods and educating the admins on how it works, they are going to have all the power in the world to frame/downplay what they are doing.

I can come up with a list of "things that would break this exploit" for you while already having the fixes to all of them.
"Oh whoopsie yukar turns out I can do THIS to circumvent"
"Hey normally this isn't that powerful but I got SUPER lucky with it this time"
"I didn't know doing THIS would work"
"Turns out you can actually..."

You'll be playing catch-up at best. If you want to reduce the pedantic fucking lawyering over block game, just say that coord exploits are banned.

[Burger]

You'll be playing catch-up at best. If you want to reduce the pedantic fucking lawyering over block game, just say that coord exploits are banned.

I agree, in what scenario would the admins ever allow a coords exploit to be used? They should obviously never be allowed.

[fatal]

Hey yuk, Dakka told us that the admin team specifically asked ant under the threat of ban if removing the ability to tp tamed mobs that are sitting down would fix the issue and he said yes but later on he conveniently found a way to make the mobs stand up so tp'ing by using portals works. The fact you already tried patching the sitting mob portal tp thing means you acknowledged this was an unfair advantage that shouldn't be allowed , so trying to use this method again after your attempt at a patch should be banable right?

[nddragoon]

So the precedent we can derive from this whole situation is Anthand is allowed to:

- Find an exploit that lets him find the base of anyone who has ever tamed a dog on the server
- Have the admins hide it for months as "intended game mechanics" while tons of bases are getting found with nothing anyone can do about it
- Get asked by admins UNDER THREAT OF BAN whether not letting sitting dogs use portals would fix the exploit and saying yes, leading to admins patching it
- AFTER admins have determined it to be an overpowered exploit to be patched, keep using it with a workaround to the patch HE SUGGESTED that he knew and didn't tell the admins about
- Get away with it

We're not asking for him to be banned retroactively, he broke the rules by abusing an exploit the admins had previously acknowledged to be unfair by patching it and also broke the rules you specified in this post by hiding his knowledge of a workaround when he was asked about how to patch it so he could continue using it.

[Anthand]

So the precedent we can derive from this whole situation is Anthand is allowed to:

- Find an exploit that lets him find the base of anyone who has ever tamed a dog on the server
- Have the admins hide it for months as "intended game mechanics" while tons of bases are getting found with nothing anyone can do about it
- Get asked by admins UNDER THREAT OF BAN whether not letting sitting dogs use portals would fix the exploit and saying yes, leading to admins patching it
- AFTER admins have determined it to be an overpowered exploit to be patched, keep using it with a workaround to the patch HE SUGGESTED that he knew and didn't tell the admins about
- Get away with it

We're not asking for him to be banned retroactively, he broke the rules by abusing an exploit the admins had previously acknowledged to be unfair by patching it and also broke the rules you specified in this post by hiding his knowledge of a workaround when he was asked about how to patch it so he could continue using it.

Im mostly going to stay out of this because I don't think arguing on forums or discord ever leads to anything productive. I am working on a video as we speak that gives further context to the situation as it definitely did not happen as everyone is describing. This is going to be my final defense on the matter until my vid is out.