Let OPs remove lag sources

[Burger]

Lately it's not been uncommon to see single-digit TPS with as few as 10 people online. It's pretty clear that a small minority don't have any respect for the server, and leave unnecessarily intensive farms running constantly or cram a huge amount of entities in a small space. One player says they deliberately keep farms running constantly with as many as 8 alts and cancel every restart because they "don't like the community", though according to ostrich1414 the main source of lag is entity cramming.

Yukar mentioned banning people who keep causing lag, but never followed through, probably due to his inactivity. Therefore, OPs should be empowered to remove sources of lag (with fair warning of course) using their admin powers - for example WorldEdit to remove laggy farms or just creative mode to remove many entities.

If someone keeps rebuilding lagfarms, they should be tempbanned, but I doubt it'll ever come to that.

[KoriJenkins]

I want lag to be reduced, I want the admins to actually give a fuck about it (they currently don't, given that rarely are efforts made to pinpoint sources unless the TPS is extremely bad), and I want laggy farms broken.

At the same time I have absolutely no faith in the destruction of farms to be enforced fairly, and creating more policies risks bloating the rules page.

I like the idea, I simply see no way it can be enforced without creating whining both justified and unjustified.

[KoriJenkins]

Also for the record, it's CreaPat's base that is the major source of lag on Sim right now. There are a few hundred villagers there that just roam about the base freely, entities and chests galore, it's probably the laggiest farmless location on the server.

I have no earthly idea how the admins are going to do anything about that without essentially telling her she can't play the game how she wants to and make the base she wants to make.

It's also been fairly obvious for a while that her base was problematic, and despite that I had ostrich telling me she wasn't a problem at all even though I essentially pointed him towards her base multiple times. Either the admins are oblivious on sources of lag, or have been instructed to intentionally lie by Yukarion after the last incident where laggers were exposed by him and promptly harassed by the community.

Circumstantial evidence, TPS was 8.08, Crea left for a minute, it rose to 13, and dropped back down to 8.27 when she rejoined. As someone who is primarily online overnight when she is as well, I can tell you the TPS has been getting worse and worse despite the relatively inactive period that is nighttime on Sim.

I feel bad because CreaPat is just trying to play the game how she wants to, but it's almost certainly her.

[Burger]

I want lag to be reduced, I want the admins to actually give a fuck about it (they currently don't, given that rarely are efforts made to pinpoint sources unless the TPS is extremely bad), and I want laggy farms broken.

At the same time I have absolutely no faith in the destruction of farms to be enforced fairly, and creating more policies risks bloating the rules page.

I like the idea, I simply see no way it can be enforced without creating whining both justified and unjustified.

Fair point, the OP would need to be knowledgeable and confident enough to know if something is causing lag or not. I also trust them not to be biased. Besides, the lagger would be given ample prior warning before any action is taken, so they'll be able to argue that their farms doesn't cause lag.

[KoriJenkins]

Fair point, the OP would need to be knowledgeable and confident enough to know if something is causing lag or not. I also trust them not to be biased. Besides, the lagger would be given ample prior warning before any action is taken, so they'll be able to argue that their farms doesn't cause lag.

I actually have next to no faith in them to even be motivated to do anything about lag regardless of bias or not. None of the admins are actually real players on this server anymore. ostrich1414 is effectively just an afk farm account that occasionally base hunts or makes a map art, MoWobbler has been primarily hosting events and barely even played anymore before being appointed admin, Yukarion afks on the events map whenever he's on and typically only plays in the evening when TPS is better, Strawman doesn't even log in more than once a week. Fairly certain for the last 2 days Mo and ost have just been sitting on the events map making parkour courses while TPS gets lower and lower.

Do those sound like the average Sim PvP players? Building farms, bases, pvping, etc? Flying from place to place, dealing with situations where lag annoys them enough to notice it? Do Sim players spend most of their time in a creative mode dimension where lag is irrelevant because you can just walk through air?

People used to call the admins out of touch with the rest of the server and I never got what they meant until now really. You're not going to notice lag at all if you spend 90% of your time in the events map, /vanish, afk, or afk while vanished or on the events map.

This should not even require complaints to be addressed. Seeing that the TPS is 7 with 9 people on should be cause to investigate it without having to be pinged by you in the discord or PMd on Sim to do something, and yet they wouldn't have even looked if you hadn't done that, which is completely hilarious. We've been in a position where the response to TPS being absolutely dreadful is for an admin to type /checkonline and if it doesn't work say "oh well" and not bother following up to at least attempt to figure out who and what the sources are so they could at least possibly be fixed with a plugin.

Yes the job is hard, yes it's stressful, both can be true while also saying the job done in this specific area hasn't been nearly good enough in the time I've played.

Call me mean, bitter, angry, whatever, idc. I care more about the server being an enjoyable experience for everyone, including the people I don't like, than I do about the fragile feelings of someone who might be offended because I was blunt and harsh. This has been going on for 2 years with the only effort made to fix it being /on and that doesn't do anything because just 1 person can tank TPS single-handedly as evidenced by Crea's base. I want the issue resolved as much as everyone else, if not more.

Hell, JUST the basic fucking thing I suggested, villager AI disabled if no players within 50 blocks, would surely help, or minecarts can't be entity crammed, anything. I can't code, I can't make plugins, SOMEONE can though, someone can make either of those and probably improve TPS far more than moving the server to fabric or improving the hardware would.

[Burger]

I'm unsure what your point is, you seem to agree that admins should be more proactive when dealing with lag? OPs are well aware when TPS is terrible, but all they're able to do is /checkonline or force a restart, as you note. I suggest that they should have greater power to deal with the lag.

But you're right, Yukar should look into some plugins which ensure that lag doesn't become a problem in the first place. When it does inevitably lag, though, I think OPs should be allowed to do more than /on or restart.

[KoriJenkins]

I'm unsure what your point is, you seem to agree that admins should be more proactive when dealing with lag? OPs are well aware when TPS is terrible, but all they're able to do is /checkonline or force a restart, as you note. I suggest that they should have greater power to deal with the lag.

But you're right, Yukar should look into some plugins which ensure that lag doesn't become a problem in the first place. When it does inevitably lag, though, I think OPs should be allowed to do more than /on or restart.

The point is they've been "well aware" that TPS is terrible, but apparently made no effort at all to find the sources.

I literally had ostrich1414 telling me that CreaPat's base was not a lag source after I told him to look at it. Either he doesn't know what causes lag, or he lied when he said that.

Coupled with the fact that they only ever bother to try and figure out what's causing it when the lag is extreme enough that people complain, yeah it's annoying. I don't think it makes any fucking sense to have 4 admins who aren't traditional players and just sit on the events map the majority of the time, yet that's what we have now (excluding Strawman who simply doesn't play)

[cavehoe]

This should only be the last resort. And shouldnt happen at all really. Server should lower render distance to 8 or do lesser controversial lag optimizations that wouldnt hurt anyone, before this idea of force removing things is considered

[Yukar9]

Moved to suggestions.

Yes, it's hard to accurately tell where lag is coming from. We can see what causes lag based on timings, but then you have to go around and effectively guess what's causing lag, and then try to confirm by unloading the chunk and seeing what happens.

Personally I don't think worldediting farms is the right approach. That'll lead to more unhappy people than are already unhappy about lag.

If we wanted an administrative solution, I think the solution would be to add tempbans for lag, as well as allowing admins to give bans of a few minutes to test if an area is causing lag.

If people want plugins or config changes to reduce lag, then you're welcome to experiment with that and submit config changes or plugins to us. But it's really not helpful for people to say "add this plugin". What is helpful is if you can say what the positive effects as well as consequences are for a plugin. You should be able to test it beforehand and tell us how much it actually helps. Assuming the plugin takes a configuration, you should have it already appropriately configured for this server. Same thing with people telling us to switch to fabric.

[KoriJenkins]

Moved to suggestions.

Yes, it's hard to accurately tell where lag is coming from. We can see what causes lag based on timings, but then you have to go around and effectively guess what's causing lag, and then try to confirm by unloading the chunk and seeing what happens.

Personally I don't think worldediting farms is the right approach. That'll lead to more unhappy people than are already unhappy about lag.

If we wanted an administrative solution, I think the solution would be to add tempbans for lag, as well as allowing admins to give bans of a few minutes to test if an area is causing lag.

If people want plugins or config changes to reduce lag, then you're welcome to experiment with that and submit config changes or plugins to us. But it's really not helpful for people to say "add this plugin". What is helpful is if you can say what the positive effects as well as consequences are for a plugin. You should be able to test it beforehand and tell us how much it actually helps. Assuming the plugin takes a configuration, you should have it already appropriately configured for this server. Same thing with people telling us to switch to fabric.

Lets say, hypothetically, a plugin that turned villager AI off when players weren't close to them existed.

Obvious pros would be that they wouldn't cause lag with their dumbfuck AI. Rarely would one person be within 50 blocks of a large amount of villagers.

Cons would be that they would be slightly less efficient. As an example, the farmers I sometimes trade with at VC are always restocked because as long as I'm within render distance their AI is working. To keep them restocking, I'd have to be even closer.

Still I think that's hardly an issue. Missing out on 10% efficiency so that the server can run much more smoothly is really not a question at all.

Alternatively a plugin that prevents minecarts from being crammed for killing would be nice. That one is a little harder to pinpoint pros and cons for, I don't think there are any real cons outside of people having to kill pigmen manually in a farm, though to be fair autoclickers are allowed so it's not like there's an excuse not to do that anyway.